Was I being manipulated?

I could really use some outside perspective on this.  So I [28 m] was in a relationship with with a 42 year old woman - she has 2 kids, is divorced, and let's call her Shannon - and am not sure if she's just manipulative or I'm an asshole for real. Just fyi I'm a virgin.

We started texting last February, and quickly realized we had a lot of things in common and conversations were really great. Eventually we started discussing more intimate things, and although we couldn't physically hang out - I was finishing my BS in NY, and she lived in my home state of TX - we texted every day. One of those days she asked me what my parents would think if we dated. My reply was that they wouldn't care, which was true - because when I went back that May after graduation I told them I was seeing her. I didn't think I had anything to hide, and I stood behind my decision. 

Anyway, back to February, after a few days after she asked about dating, she told me that she had had an abortion back in September of '17. She told me that her ex was abusive and an addict and that when she got pregnant he made her get the abortion. She had been struggling with depression ever since and that I was the only person, beside the friend who took her to the clinic, who she had felt comfortable/safe enough to tell. I was shocked, but felt so much for her that I tried to be as supportive and loving as I could. It made me really consider our relationship and what I thought about her. After thinking on it I came to the conclusion that I still had feelings for her, and she wasn't any less of a good person or somehow unworthy or dirty.  It was a decision I didn't make lightly, because I can only imagine how hard that must be on a woman, and if I continued the relationship I couldn't half ass it; that if I was in, I had to be in 100%. So we continued talking and I kept on trying to build her up. Eventually she said we should hang out at her place for spring break and we could "play" cause her daughters were going to be with their dad. I immediately agreed and used some of my school loan to buy a plane ticket.

The time came for spring break and I went back to TX, excited and nervous all at the same time because I hadn't told her I was a virgin. Well the week in TX came and went and all of a sudden she went MIA. I  texted her to see if she still wanted to hang out at her place, and got no reply. I was really crushed, not only because of we were going to "play", but because I really wanted to be with her in person. I started to get in my head and I figured she had decided I wasn't good enough because why would she would want to be with me - she's a really great looking woman, and a great person, she could have anyone she wants. So when Friday came, I decided to text her to tell her that although I was sad we hadn't met up, I understood that she had decided she didn't want to be with me, and that after all the honesty she had with me, I had to come clean and tell her I was a virgin and that  she deserved for me to have the balls to be equally honest. I realize amd abortion and virginity are not equal, but I had never mustered up the courage to tell someone, much less someone I was romantically interested in. I wished her and her girls all the best and I would completely understand if she didn't want to talk anymore.

Days went by, and I had not heard back from her, which I kind of expected, why would she want to be with a 28 year old virgin still finishing his bachelor's degree. Once I got back to NY, I started getting ready to go back to classes the next day, and she texted me. She said she was sorry that she had been with her family and her phone fell in water the Wednesday before, and that she finally read my text and it made her cry. She told me that there was nothing wrong with me, that she was sorry she couldn't communicate with me and that she hadn't been able to get away from her family, and that she wamted to pursueour relationship. I was thoroughly shocked. That was not what I was expecting at all. So we continued texting. I decided to trust her. For the rest of the semester we kept on talking and shared our account passwords to be able to watch movies and tv shows together, in a way.

Graduation came and then it was time for me to go back to TX and find a job. Before all of this I had planned on staying in NY and do everything possible to get a job there. When I got back we made plans to meet up again, but this time just to be with each other because she wasn't feeling well, and her daughter would be home. I agreed, I  really wanted to see her and be with her. We did hang out, I met her youngest daughter and she hung out with us for a bit watching a movie. While watching the movie we were next to each other and got closer; to the point where she rested her head on my chest/shoulder and I put my are around her. Her daughter left a few minutes into the movie and we kept watching TV till late at night. I ended up staying over and sleeping on her couch. The next morning we woke up and watched some tv - the royal wedding was on - and I eventually took off.

We texted every day and her health got worse, she had already been feeling ill and by a week later she ended up going to an urgent clinic. We made plans to hang out for her birthday but she ended up going to the hospital, turns out she had sepsis. She recovered, but her doctors recommended she have a couple  of check ups in the months following to make sure her organs healed up. During this time she ended up having to take all kinds of meds for her heart and antibiotics till she was in the clear

We hung out one more day, but her ex's step mom was there because they were supposed to travel to Alaska for a couple of weeks so that they could visit with the girl's grandparents. She told me to tell her ex's step mom we had met in class at the University of Houston, and that it how we knew each other. I agreed and when we met up at her place  we cuddled and watched movies.  By the time it was time for me to go, she asked me if I would stay at her place while they were gone so I could watch her cats, get her mail, and also so I could get some space from staying with my parents. I agreed, and the day they were to fly out came and I arrived at her place. They were already gone, but that was expected. She told me they were leaving at noon so they could check in to a hotel near the airport. When I got there I got settled in, but I ended up getting a call from her around 10-12; she was crying and said that her ex's step mom had started drinking and that she was getting abusive. She asked me to please go pick her and her youngest daughter up. So I did. When I pciked her up she was bawling. She was like "babe that was awful" and we hugged. I hadn't thought about it before but her oldest daughter - who was 16  - had decided she was still going to go. Or at least not come with us. Her 16 year old ended up not going. But when we got back she told me that she couldn't go to a place so far away where she would be isolated from everything and that if her ex's step mom would get belligerently drunk she would have nowhere to go; she didn't want to be stranded.

Well when we got back to her place we stayed up cuddled up in her couch watching tv.

I left the next morning and we kept on talking. Around the first week of July she asked me if I could please go with her and her youngest daughter to a slime convention, her daughter really wanted to go and she was feeling anxious. I agree and she booked us a hotel. The plan was for me to go and hang out and "play" the Friday before the convention and I could stay over and drive us on Saturday to Dallas. 

When I got there on Friday she was a bit tipsy, but I can't judge, I mean although I don't skip work or miss out on any of my responsibilities, I do drink quite a bit. She described herself as a lush, and I in my opinion that was something else we had in common. Her daughters were both home, and she had rearranged her living room so that the couch was on the wall between her oldest daughter's room and the living room, and her youngest daughter's room, which is adjacent to her room and only separated by a door with glasses, had the doors wide open. Her daughter's room leads into her room. Anyway we were hanging out having a good time and her 12 year old said she was hungry, I hadn't drank at all and felt I could have some beer said I would get her a bugger and a milkshake and after we could pick up some beer and wine cause she was out. We went and I got the food for her kid, and two bottles of wine and a six pack. I thought two bottles was a bit much but thought hey if I finish my six pack I can get some wine. So I paid for it. When we got back home we started drinking a bit and talking and her 12 year old showed me her wiccan stone on a string. She asked me to ask it questions so I played along, and asked some questions. She told me the answers and what not. She was having fun so everyone was happy. Eventually her mom and I started talking about music and our favorite songs so her kid left. I got up for a beer, and somehow the subject came up and she said that I wasn't going to be losing my virginity that night so I shouldn't expect sex. I was alright with that so we kept to chilling and we kept on having a great time, her legs over my lap and just kidding around. Eventually when we got really close I decided to spoon her. She said "we're not having sex", which was totally ok. I decided I wasn't going to push it to sex, but I wanted to caress her. I was really turned on, and my hands were rubbing her legs and thighs. Btw she was wearing really short and tight shorts, and she unbuttoned them after a while. We spent several hours talking and listening to music and cuddling. She went through a whole bottle of wine and started on the second. She eventually grabbed my hand and put it on her abdomen. My immediate thought was to put my hand down her pants, but then I saw the door open and she said she didn't want sex, so I didn't. Which was fortunate cause her 12 year burst in pissed off because the music was too loud and it was 2 am. I immediately took away my hand and we both started laughing cause she was so mad and we almost got caught. I didn't think it was a big deal, by 3 am she said let's have sex. I  was like alright, but I knew there was no way her kids wouldn't find us. She then thought about it and realized we had no privacy. So we kept on cuddling and talking in the couch in the living room and her 17 year old yelled, that she wanted to go to sleep and that she could hear everything. So Shannon yelled at her, and then got up and stormed into her room yelling and really aggressive. She shut the door behind her and from I heard was her daughter screaming cause Shannon was pulling her hair, threw her cellphone at her kid's head, and told her she had to call her dad right then to pick her up and take her away; the 16 year old was gonna be spending the weekend alone for the first time that weekend . Her daughter was crying and I thought about going in the room and bring her out. Then I thought I'm a latino with a DUI on my record, and god forbid this woman turns on me and I have to subdue her without hitting her, and someone calls the cops. I would have been fucked. So I stayed out of it, against my better sense. After about 5 minutes Shannon came back and we sat back down on the couch. When I thought she had calmed down? She got back up again and went back into the kid's room this time though I was ready and followed her in before she could close the door. She was all kinds of pissed off, I could sympathize with the kids, they wanted to go to sleep, they're kids. This time I grabbed her by the hand and pulled her back a bit. She kept on yelling at her daughter, and I told her this wasn't necessary, to please come with me. She budged and I told her daughter I was so sorry. So I took her back to the living room and argued a bit. She said I was playing devil's advocate for saying we should head to bed. She said her daughters have so many freedoms and she allows them to do a lot at her own life. She then started yelling "I'm not scared of you", to her daughter. I told her it wasn't necessary, that her kid was probably more scared of her. I grew up in a house with parents who would hit you, but this wasn't discipline.

She quit yelling and told me to lay back down on the couch, which I was amenable to, that's what we were doing, and she would calm down. We got back to cuddling and this time i put botb my arms around her and held her. She asked me if I was going to leave her and I told her no. After a bit we got up and she grabbed my hand and we went to her room. We slept together and at some point she took her shirt off along with her bra, and grabbed my hand and put it to her heart and told me she loved me. The next morning I got her breakfast, and drove us to Dallas.

When we got to the hotel room there was only one bed. I was expecting two so we could sleep together, And her kid could sleep on the other. When I saw that I didn't push it and slept on the couch. My thought was that it would be inappropriate for me to sleep on the same bed with them, and that the weekend was really about her slime convention. So I stepped aside. I was completely beat, I had gotten up at 8 am to get her breakfast, and tend to her hangover. I cleaned up after she finished eating, let her recover. I wanted to make sure we weren't going to be late to sign in, cause there was a deadline, and it wasn't about to be  my fault we didn't make it.

We made it in time, and to be honest with you I was running low on money. I was actively looking for work and hadn't found anything and I was using the last of my money from working at school.  The next morning we got up early and started the day, I was still beat from sleeping on the couch, having only 5 hours of sleep, drinking the night before, and driving 4 hours straight. After the convention I picked them up and started driving back. About 30 minutes in I asked her if she could take the wheel cause I was falling asleep. She agreed, but there was definitely  shift in her mood. We ended up not going back to her place, and she dropped me off at my parent's house.

We kept texting, the following days, but there was definitely a distance. By Friday say told me she told me it wasn't  me and it was her. I told her it broke my heart but ok.

I started drinking really heavily now, and sent her a text saying "maybe in another life" in reference to 11.22.63, a show we were watching.

On the weekend she texted me back and said she wasn't going to be part of any pitty party. I'm not sure but she seemed like she had been drinking. At this point I had already started drinking really heavily, and was high on pot, and just had broken down in front of my dad. I told her I had not been doing well, and had just had an intense talk with my dad. She started getting more aggressive, and it culminated in her telling me that at least her ex would clean up her house, and was useful. She said that her ex husband made over 300k a year. I told her I had been there for her, that when I got a job I had every intention of providing for her and the kids. She told me she didn't need anyone to be there for her. She told me I was an amateur. And I told her she uses people. I felt like I had been had, and even she had told me stories of a friend she'd known her whole life whom she used, and that she had been kinder to me in the time we knew each other than in a lifetime to this guy. So I told her she uses people, and she said I was an asshole for saying that, and that I was no longer welcome. She proceeded to block me on Facebook, and my number

After a couple of days I decided to remove her from my Hulu. I didn't see the need to keep providing that after she had banished me from her life and contacting her.

I emailed her one last time after drinking a few 40s. She replied that I was cruel like many other men in her life, and to never contact her again.

The cruel, reference comes from a discussion we had about her ex husband taking his latest gf's car away after breaking up with her, even though he owned it.  Now I question whether I am really cruel and asshole or if she's just manipulative.

Submitted May 06, 2019 at 12:37PM

I could really use some outside perspective on this.  So I [28 m] was in a relationship with with a 42 year old woman - she has 2 kids, is divorced, and let's call her Shannon - and am not sure if she's just manipulative or I'm an asshole for real. Just fyi I'm a virgin.We started texting last February, and quickly realized we had a lot of things in common and conversations were really great. Eventually we started discussing more intimate things, and although we couldn't physically hang out - I was finishing my BS in NY, and she lived in my home state of TX - we texted every day. One of those days she asked me what my parents would think if we dated. My reply was that they wouldn't care, which was true - because when I went back that May after graduation I told them I was seeing her. I didn't think I had anything to hide, and I stood behind my decision. Anyway, back to February, after a few days after she asked about dating, she told me that she had had an abortion back in September of '17. She told me that her ex was abusive and an addict and that when she got pregnant he made her get the abortion. She had been struggling with depression ever since and that I was the only person, beside the friend who took her to the clinic, who she had felt comfortable/safe enough to tell. I was shocked, but felt so much for her that I tried to be as supportive and loving as I could. It made me really consider our relationship and what I thought about her. After thinking on it I came to the conclusion that I still had feelings for her, and she wasn't any less of a good person or somehow unworthy or dirty.  It was a decision I didn't make lightly, because I can only imagine how hard that must be on a woman, and if I continued the relationship I couldn't half ass it; that if I was in, I had to be in 100%. So we continued talking and I kept on trying to build her up. Eventually she said we should hang out at her place for spring break and we could "play" cause her daughters were going to be with their dad. I immediately agreed and used some of my school loan to buy a plane ticket.The time came for spring break and I went back to TX, excited and nervous all at the same time because I hadn't told her I was a virgin. Well the week in TX came and went and all of a sudden she went MIA. I  texted her to see if she still wanted to hang out at her place, and got no reply. I was really crushed, not only because of we were going to "play", but because I really wanted to be with her in person. I started to get in my head and I figured she had decided I wasn't good enough because why would she would want to be with me - she's a really great looking woman, and a great person, she could have anyone she wants. So when Friday came, I decided to text her to tell her that although I was sad we hadn't met up, I understood that she had decided she didn't want to be with me, and that after all the honesty she had with me, I had to come clean and tell her I was a virgin and that  she deserved for me to have the balls to be equally honest. I realize amd abortion and virginity are not equal, but I had never mustered up the courage to tell someone, much less someone I was romantically interested in. I wished her and her girls all the best and I would completely understand if she didn't want to talk anymore.Days went by, and I had not heard back from her, which I kind of expected, why would she want to be with a 28 year old virgin still finishing his bachelor's degree. Once I got back to NY, I started getting ready to go back to classes the next day, and she texted me. She said she was sorry that she had been with her family and her phone fell in water the Wednesday before, and that she finally read my text and it made her cry. She told me that there was nothing wrong with me, that she was sorry she couldn't communicate with me and that she hadn't been able to get away from her family, and that she wamted to pursueour relationship. I was thoroughly shocked. That was not what I was expecting at all. So we continued texting. I decided to trust her. For the rest of the semester we kept on talking and shared our account passwords to be able to watch movies and tv shows together, in a way.Graduation came and then it was time for me to go back to TX and find a job. Before all of this I had planned on staying in NY and do everything possible to get a job there. When I got back we made plans to meet up again, but this time just to be with each other because she wasn't feeling well, and her daughter would be home. I agreed, I  really wanted to see her and be with her. We did hang out, I met her youngest daughter and she hung out with us for a bit watching a movie. While watching the movie we were next to each other and got closer; to the point where she rested her head on my chest/shoulder and I put my are around her. Her daughter left a few minutes into the movie and we kept watching TV till late at night. I ended up staying over and sleeping on her couch. The next morning we woke up and watched some tv - the royal wedding was on - and I eventually took off.We texted every day and her health got worse, she had already been feeling ill and by a week later she ended up going to an urgent clinic. We made plans to hang out for her birthday but she ended up going to the hospital, turns out she had sepsis. She recovered, but her doctors recommended she have a couple  of check ups in the months following to make sure her organs healed up. During this time she ended up having to take all kinds of meds for her heart and antibiotics till she was in the clearWe hung out one more day, but her ex's step mom was there because they were supposed to travel to Alaska for a couple of weeks so that they could visit with the girl's grandparents. She told me to tell her ex's step mom we had met in class at the University of Houston, and that it how we knew each other. I agreed and when we met up at her place  we cuddled and watched movies.  By the time it was time for me to go, she asked me if I would stay at her place while they were gone so I could watch her cats, get her mail, and also so I could get some space from staying with my parents. I agreed, and the day they were to fly out came and I arrived at her place. They were already gone, but that was expected. She told me they were leaving at noon so they could check in to a hotel near the airport. When I got there I got settled in, but I ended up getting a call from her around 10-12; she was crying and said that her ex's step mom had started drinking and that she was getting abusive. She asked me to please go pick her and her youngest daughter up. So I did. When I pciked her up she was bawling. She was like "babe that was awful" and we hugged. I hadn't thought about it before but her oldest daughter - who was 16  - had decided she was still going to go. Or at least not come with us. Her 16 year old ended up not going. But when we got back she told me that she couldn't go to a place so far away where she would be isolated from everything and that if her ex's step mom would get belligerently drunk she would have nowhere to go; she didn't want to be stranded.Well when we got back to her place we stayed up cuddled up in her couch watching tv.I left the next morning and we kept on talking. Around the first week of July she asked me if I could please go with her and her youngest daughter to a slime convention, her daughter really wanted to go and she was feeling anxious. I agree and she booked us a hotel. The plan was for me to go and hang out and "play" the Friday before the convention and I could stay over and drive us on Saturday to Dallas. When I got there on Friday she was a bit tipsy, but I can't judge, I mean although I don't skip work or miss out on any of my responsibilities, I do drink quite a bit. She described herself as a lush, and I in my opinion that was something else we had in common. Her daughters were both home, and she had rearranged her living room so that the couch was on the wall between her oldest daughter's room and the living room, and her youngest daughter's room, which is adjacent to her room and only separated by a door with glasses, had the doors wide open. Her daughter's room leads into her room. Anyway we were hanging out having a good time and her 12 year old said she was hungry, I hadn't drank at all and felt I could have some beer said I would get her a bugger and a milkshake and after we could pick up some beer and wine cause she was out. We went and I got the food for her kid, and two bottles of wine and a six pack. I thought two bottles was a bit much but thought hey if I finish my six pack I can get some wine. So I paid for it. When we got back home we started drinking a bit and talking and her 12 year old showed me her wiccan stone on a string. She asked me to ask it questions so I played along, and asked some questions. She told me the answers and what not. She was having fun so everyone was happy. Eventually her mom and I started talking about music and our favorite songs so her kid left. I got up for a beer, and somehow the subject came up and she said that I wasn't going to be losing my virginity that night so I shouldn't expect sex. I was alright with that so we kept to chilling and we kept on having a great time, her legs over my lap and just kidding around. Eventually when we got really close I decided to spoon her. She said "we're not having sex", which was totally ok. I decided I wasn't going to push it to sex, but I wanted to caress her. I was really turned on, and my hands were rubbing her legs and thighs. Btw she was wearing really short and tight shorts, and she unbuttoned them after a while. We spent several hours talking and listening to music and cuddling. She went through a whole bottle of wine and started on the second. She eventually grabbed my hand and put it on her abdomen. My immediate thought was to put my hand down her pants, but then I saw the door open and she said she didn't want sex, so I didn't. Which was fortunate cause her 12 year burst in pissed off because the music was too loud and it was 2 am. I immediately took away my hand and we both started laughing cause she was so mad and we almost got caught. I didn't think it was a big deal, by 3 am she said let's have sex. I  was like alright, but I knew there was no way her kids wouldn't find us. She then thought about it and realized we had no privacy. So we kept on cuddling and talking in the couch in the living room and her 17 year old yelled, that she wanted to go to sleep and that she could hear everything. So Shannon yelled at her, and then got up and stormed into her room yelling and really aggressive. She shut the door behind her and from I heard was her daughter screaming cause Shannon was pulling her hair, threw her cellphone at her kid's head, and told her she had to call her dad right then to pick her up and take her away; the 16 year old was gonna be spending the weekend alone for the first time that weekend . Her daughter was crying and I thought about going in the room and bring her out. Then I thought I'm a latino with a DUI on my record, and god forbid this woman turns on me and I have to subdue her without hitting her, and someone calls the cops. I would have been fucked. So I stayed out of it, against my better sense. After about 5 minutes Shannon came back and we sat back down on the couch. When I thought she had calmed down? She got back up again and went back into the kid's room this time though I was ready and followed her in before she could close the door. She was all kinds of pissed off, I could sympathize with the kids, they wanted to go to sleep, they're kids. This time I grabbed her by the hand and pulled her back a bit. She kept on yelling at her daughter, and I told her this wasn't necessary, to please come with me. She budged and I told her daughter I was so sorry. So I took her back to the living room and argued a bit. She said I was playing devil's advocate for saying we should head to bed. She said her daughters have so many freedoms and she allows them to do a lot at her own life. She then started yelling "I'm not scared of you", to her daughter. I told her it wasn't necessary, that her kid was probably more scared of her. I grew up in a house with parents who would hit you, but this wasn't discipline.She quit yelling and told me to lay back down on the couch, which I was amenable to, that's what we were doing, and she would calm down. We got back to cuddling and this time i put botb my arms around her and held her. She asked me if I was going to leave her and I told her no. After a bit we got up and she grabbed my hand and we went to her room. We slept together and at some point she took her shirt off along with her bra, and grabbed my hand and put it to her heart and told me she loved me. The next morning I got her breakfast, and drove us to Dallas.When we got to the hotel room there was only one bed. I was expecting two so we could sleep together, And her kid could sleep on the other. When I saw that I didn't push it and slept on the couch. My thought was that it would be inappropriate for me to sleep on the same bed with them, and that the weekend was really about her slime convention. So I stepped aside. I was completely beat, I had gotten up at 8 am to get her breakfast, and tend to her hangover. I cleaned up after she finished eating, let her recover. I wanted to make sure we weren't going to be late to sign in, cause there was a deadline, and it wasn't about to be  my fault we didn't make it.We made it in time, and to be honest with you I was running low on money. I was actively looking for work and hadn't found anything and I was using the last of my money from working at school.  The next morning we got up early and started the day, I was still beat from sleeping on the couch, having only 5 hours of sleep, drinking the night before, and driving 4 hours straight. After the convention I picked them up and started driving back. About 30 minutes in I asked her if she could take the wheel cause I was falling asleep. She agreed, but there was definitely  shift in her mood. We ended up not going back to her place, and she dropped me off at my parent's house.We kept texting, the following days, but there was definitely a distance. By Friday say told me she told me it wasn't  me and it was her. I told her it broke my heart but ok.I started drinking really heavily now, and sent her a text saying "maybe in another life" in reference to 11.22.63, a show we were watching.On the weekend she texted me back and said she wasn't going to be part of any pitty party. I'm not sure but she seemed like she had been drinking. At this point I had already started drinking really heavily, and was high on pot, and just had broken down in front of my dad. I told her I had not been doing well, and had just had an intense talk with my dad. She started getting more aggressive, and it culminated in her telling me that at least her ex would clean up her house, and was useful. She said that her ex husband made over 300k a year. I told her I had been there for her, that when I got a job I had every intention of providing for her and the kids. She told me she didn't need anyone to be there for her. She told me I was an amateur. And I told her she uses people. I felt like I had been had, and even she had told me stories of a friend she'd known her whole life whom she used, and that she had been kinder to me in the time we knew each other than in a lifetime to this guy. So I told her she uses people, and she said I was an asshole for saying that, and that I was no longer welcome. She proceeded to block me on Facebook, and my numberAfter a couple of days I decided to remove her from my Hulu. I didn't see the need to keep providing that after she had banished me from her life and contacting her.I emailed her one last time after drinking a few 40s. She replied that I was cruel like many other men in her life, and to never contact her again.The cruel, reference comes from a discussion we had about her ex husband taking his latest gf's car away after breaking up with her, even though he owned it.  Now I question whether I am really cruel and asshole or if she's just manipulative.