To incels (and people who feel shut out of dating in general)

tl;dr a) being pragmatic really helps with this and it's not their fault they're not into you; b) you have to make an effort to present yourself in the best light you can without lying to them and to yourself; c) giving your potential dates the benefit of the doubt in relation to looks and personality pays off; d) practice makes perfect, and e) if you're not confident enough, you're just gonna have to fake it or drug yourself into it.

I'm sorry, but I seriously doubt this narrative that there is a "Chad" class of men that gets the all the attention from women and that THAT is the reason average guys like you and me get nearly no matches or no response or don't have a relationship. Of course looks get the girls' attention and of course if you're looking to have sex with and get the attention of (conventionally) attractive girls, being more attractive and conventionally masculine gives you a significant edge. And of course being considered ugly by most people is a significant negative factor.

But not all women (and people in general) are interested only in looks (especially when looking for a relationship). They might also be interested in people who are any of the following: interesting, stylish, good emotional partners, good sex partners, comfortable to talk to, dependable, kind, confident, talented or knowledgeable at a subject, and the list goes on. Boiling it all down to "not having the right genes" isn't just wishful thinking, but also taking away responsibility from yourself to both look for people who are interested in you and to try and make yourself attractive to those who you're interested in. Also, women are often pretty selective and cautious, and this is compounded by how often men give them reasons to be afraid.

This doesn't mean you can get any woman regardless of looks or that absolutely none of them are vapid, shallow or use looks as their only or main factor when choosing who to date. You absolutely have to be realistic in that most conventionally attractive girls will be a lot more attracted to the Chad-type guys than they are to an average short, skinny or overweight guy. It's just biology. Not all women are attracted to the same features, but the Chad features are more likely to be desired. Even so, it's not just genes. Suffice it to say, you wouldn't be here if your father and his ancestors hadn't been able to bang someone at least once (excluding the edge cases of rape and prostitution, but still), but even this is beside the point. You gotta work with what you have.

You definitely have to try though (and you'll have to try a lot harder than people who're conventionally attractive) and trying doesn't mean just having the guts to make moves, but also just treating girls like the unique, sentient human beings they are instead of putting them all on the same category. There's also nothing wrong with casual sex, but you always have to be mindful of boundaries and generally not being a creep. I know that the line between "flirting" and "sexual harassment" shifts a lot depending on how much the other party is into you, but still, girls spend their whole lives afraid of harassment by men, and, except if you're a total asshole, you're unlikely to be considered a creep if you flirt in an appropriate way and back away respectfully if rejected. You have to take the plunge though. Very few women will go after you if you don't go after them first.

I swear I get the incel mentality. I really do. I know what it's like to feel like you're marginalized by society because you don't fit the expectations of most people you're into, and I know being ugly (or having "the wrong genes") makes your life a lot harder in a lot of contexts, not just dating, and that this is through no fault of your own. But it's a huge exaggeration to suggest that you just can't get any women if you're not conventionally attractive. Maybe you won't get the current girl of your dreams, but if she's not into you, there's often little to do except sucking it up and moving on -- even though that's your call: just don't be an insistent, boundary pushing asshole. And also: don't blame women for not liking you. Would you blame yourself for not being into the women you don't like? It's not a conspiracy, dude, she's just not into you.

I've struggled with having confidence my whole life, ever since high school, and I keep struggling with it, but just sitting back making no moves and assuming no one thinks you're interesting, fun, or hot won't do you any favours. You really don't need to assume everyone's idea of you're attractive is the same as yours. I've been very surprised by this. You can sometimes hit it off with women just by talking to them, without making any moves at all. You just have to present yourself in what you consider to be the best possible light (this involves looks, interests, wit and so on), to subtly show them what you like about yourself, and to show them you're interested -- not necessarily in romance or sex, though that might help -- but interested in them and everything that entails. This may or may not pay off, but it sure is better than sitting on your ass complaining you "don't have the right genes".

You have to realize that even though it's hard to swallow, it doesn't pay to be attracted to people who aren't attracted to you. You really have got to focus on what you can try to have and not in what you want to have. Anyway, being interested in you is the best quality a potential date can have -- especially if you're looking for a girlfriend. If they're not, the whole thing falls apart, and it's not necessarily their fault either. What's the appeal of a date with someone who doesn't think you're attractive or interesting. Sex is good and hot girls are nice, but sex really is overrated by people like me who don't get enough of it (companionship and mutual respect are much better). And anyway, when you like or love someone enough, they just are beautiful to you regardless.

I get you, I'm a skinny, not tall, average guy. I don't often get any looks from the girls everyone thinks are super hot or interesting, or both. But you know what, I'm not even into the "supermodel" body style, and I've found that being as accepting of your potential dates' body and characteristics as you'd like them to be of yours -- in other words, just getting to know someone you find interesting and giving them the benefit of the doubt -- can get you somewhere, and if not, you just back off. Rinse and repeat. And you really have got to be yourself unless you're just looking for casual flings. You can't build a relationship on a foundation of lying, play-acting or posturing. The girls you're interested in aren't just things you wanna have sex with, they are, crucially, actual people who you want to both fuck and be good friends with (hence: girlfriend). Just treat them like a friend and flirt however much you think is appropriate -- again, unless you're just looking for sex, in which case the Chads have even more of an edge over you. If they want sex, they just have to come up to a couple of hot girls and ask them out or for their number until it works out. But gaining a girl's interest, not only sexually, is a lot more within the reach of uglier people than it seems.

This has somewhat worked for me. I've stopped putting people on pedestals. I've stopped only trying to get with girls who are at the absolute top of my idea of attractiveness and interestingness. Trying too much can often make it worse anyway. And you know what, just yesterday I had a great time with some girl from tinder, I brought her home and we had sex. We listened to music, smoked some weed, talked about our lives and went to sleep. I just treated her like a human being, was interested, and got interest in return. Then I made a move. And if she wasn't interested (she probably would have ghosted me if that was the case though, like so many have), I was completely ready to just take it in stride and move on. That's just what you have to do. Girls aren't some type of mysterious monster, just treat them like people, hell, just make the jokes and observations you'd make to a friend, flirt a little and then make a move. It's that simple (not easy, but simple). Above all, just keep trying. Practicing makes it easier. Yesterday was a big deal to me. Probably not to her, but whatever right?

I felt I needed to write this to give people my two cents about being angry at not being able to get the girls they want. It sucks, but there's a lot you can do about it. It's not easy, and definitely not as easy as it is for attractive men, but it's just how it is.

PS: This is more directed at hetero men, but I'm pretty sure most of it works for everyone in a situation of feeling shut out of dating and sex because of their looks.

Submitted January 18, 2020 at 11:30PM

tl;dr a) being pragmatic really helps with this and it's not their fault they're not into you; b) you have to make an effort to present yourself in the best light you can without lying to them and to yourself; c) giving your potential dates the benefit of the doubt in relation to looks and personality pays off; d) practice makes perfect, and e) if you're not confident enough, you're just gonna have to fake it or drug yourself into it.I'm sorry, but I seriously doubt this narrative that there is a "Chad" class of men that gets the all the attention from women and that THAT is the reason average guys like you and me get nearly no matches or no response or don't have a relationship. Of course looks get the girls' attention and of course if you're looking to have sex with and get the attention of (conventionally) attractive girls, being more attractive and conventionally masculine gives you a significant edge. And of course being considered ugly by most people is a significant negative factor.But not all women (and people in general) are interested only in looks (especially when looking for a relationship). They might also be interested in people who are any of the following: interesting, stylish, good emotional partners, good sex partners, comfortable to talk to, dependable, kind, confident, talented or knowledgeable at a subject, and the list goes on. Boiling it all down to "not having the right genes" isn't just wishful thinking, but also taking away responsibility from yourself to both look for people who are interested in you and to try and make yourself attractive to those who you're interested in. Also, women are often pretty selective and cautious, and this is compounded by how often men give them reasons to be afraid.This doesn't mean you can get any woman regardless of looks or that absolutely none of them are vapid, shallow or use looks as their only or main factor when choosing who to date. You absolutely have to be realistic in that most conventionally attractive girls will be a lot more attracted to the Chad-type guys than they are to an average short, skinny or overweight guy. It's just biology. Not all women are attracted to the same features, but the Chad features are more likely to be desired. Even so, it's not just genes. Suffice it to say, you wouldn't be here if your father and his ancestors hadn't been able to bang someone at least once (excluding the edge cases of rape and prostitution, but still), but even this is beside the point. You gotta work with what you have.You definitely have to try though (and you'll have to try a lot harder than people who're conventionally attractive) and trying doesn't mean just having the guts to make moves, but also just treating girls like the unique, sentient human beings they are instead of putting them all on the same category. There's also nothing wrong with casual sex, but you always have to be mindful of boundaries and generally not being a creep. I know that the line between "flirting" and "sexual harassment" shifts a lot depending on how much the other party is into you, but still, girls spend their whole lives afraid of harassment by men, and, except if you're a total asshole, you're unlikely to be considered a creep if you flirt in an appropriate way and back away respectfully if rejected. You have to take the plunge though. Very few women will go after you if you don't go after them first.I swear I get the incel mentality. I really do. I know what it's like to feel like you're marginalized by society because you don't fit the expectations of most people you're into, and I know being ugly (or having "the wrong genes") makes your life a lot harder in a lot of contexts, not just dating, and that this is through no fault of your own. But it's a huge exaggeration to suggest that you just can't get any women if you're not conventionally attractive. Maybe you won't get the current girl of your dreams, but if she's not into you, there's often little to do except sucking it up and moving on -- even though that's your call: just don't be an insistent, boundary pushing asshole. And also: don't blame women for not liking you. Would you blame yourself for not being into the women you don't like? It's not a conspiracy, dude, she's just not into you.I've struggled with having confidence my whole life, ever since high school, and I keep struggling with it, but just sitting back making no moves and assuming no one thinks you're interesting, fun, or hot won't do you any favours. You really don't need to assume everyone's idea of you're attractive is the same as yours. I've been very surprised by this. You can sometimes hit it off with women just by talking to them, without making any moves at all. You just have to present yourself in what you consider to be the best possible light (this involves looks, interests, wit and so on), to subtly show them what you like about yourself, and to show them you're interested -- not necessarily in romance or sex, though that might help -- but interested in them and everything that entails. This may or may not pay off, but it sure is better than sitting on your ass complaining you "don't have the right genes".You have to realize that even though it's hard to swallow, it doesn't pay to be attracted to people who aren't attracted to you. You really have got to focus on what you can try to have and not in what you want to have. Anyway, being interested in you is the best quality a potential date can have -- especially if you're looking for a girlfriend. If they're not, the whole thing falls apart, and it's not necessarily their fault either. What's the appeal of a date with someone who doesn't think you're attractive or interesting. Sex is good and hot girls are nice, but sex really is overrated by people like me who don't get enough of it (companionship and mutual respect are much better). And anyway, when you like or love someone enough, they just are beautiful to you regardless.I get you, I'm a skinny, not tall, average guy. I don't often get any looks from the girls everyone thinks are super hot or interesting, or both. But you know what, I'm not even into the "supermodel" body style, and I've found that being as accepting of your potential dates' body and characteristics as you'd like them to be of yours -- in other words, just getting to know someone you find interesting and giving them the benefit of the doubt -- can get you somewhere, and if not, you just back off. Rinse and repeat. And you really have got to be yourself unless you're just looking for casual flings. You can't build a relationship on a foundation of lying, play-acting or posturing. The girls you're interested in aren't just things you wanna have sex with, they are, crucially, actual people who you want to both fuck and be good friends with (hence: girlfriend). Just treat them like a friend and flirt however much you think is appropriate -- again, unless you're just looking for sex, in which case the Chads have even more of an edge over you. If they want sex, they just have to come up to a couple of hot girls and ask them out or for their number until it works out. But gaining a girl's interest, not only sexually, is a lot more within the reach of uglier people than it seems.This has somewhat worked for me. I've stopped putting people on pedestals. I've stopped only trying to get with girls who are at the absolute top of my idea of attractiveness and interestingness. Trying too much can often make it worse anyway. And you know what, just yesterday I had a great time with some girl from tinder, I brought her home and we had sex. We listened to music, smoked some weed, talked about our lives and went to sleep. I just treated her like a human being, was interested, and got interest in return. Then I made a move. And if she wasn't interested (she probably would have ghosted me if that was the case though, like so many have), I was completely ready to just take it in stride and move on. That's just what you have to do. Girls aren't some type of mysterious monster, just treat them like people, hell, just make the jokes and observations you'd make to a friend, flirt a little and then make a move. It's that simple (not easy, but simple). Above all, just keep trying. Practicing makes it easier. Yesterday was a big deal to me. Probably not to her, but whatever right?I felt I needed to write this to give people my two cents about being angry at not being able to get the girls they want. It sucks, but there's a lot you can do about it. It's not easy, and definitely not as easy as it is for attractive men, but it's just how it is.PS: This is more directed at hetero men, but I'm pretty sure most of it works for everyone in a situation of feeling shut out of dating and sex because of their looks.