Guys should be open to being the pursuers in relationships - because gender inequality is real

Not everyone has the same experiences in dating, but gender inequality is real. This post is about women's common negative experiences with dating growing up in our western culture in North America. This is not to say negative experiences are the only ones, but this post acknowledges that women face real collective barriers to finding what we want out of relationships that are not rooted purely in our choices or our chances - this post recognizes our choices are made based on what is available to us, or our chances. It's my personal belief that to improve conditions for women, we need to be free to address men as an entire group and state what we need from all of them at once. Our culture often views women who attempt to address men like this as talking down to them, judging them, even hating them, when it's just a woman trying to make standards setting the norm by sharing what we want and expect. Allowing women to clearly and openly define customs and norms as equals when it comes to dating is why its important to let women speak about men as a whole as well as our experiences with dating culture. We need to be free to CONNECT our own personal experiences with a wider culture and other women's experiences in order to change culture to lessen gender inequality in dating.

On this note, the 20s are a time of everyone pretending men and women are equal: and by that I mean we are equally respected by others, given equal opportunities to enjoy sex and gather positive self affirming experiences, etc. By the close of the decade, its obvious this isn't true.

This is why men should chase (in my opinion).

By 30, many women have went through a decade of discouragement in the form of bad sex, feeling misunderstood by people who think its normal to not understand our bodies or emotions, who expect us to beg to be treated right, who then resent us for asking for what we need.

How many guys understand this?

Their fears of rejection (for good reasons) are not actually a form of discouragement relative to the objectification, dehumanization, chronic disappointment, and expectations that we lower our standards that many women have faced.

I believe guys should understand this, but I'm not sure they do. Studies confirm that men perceive and experience more benefits to their happiness in long term relationships than women do - they expect these unions to add to their lives more and they're treated better in them.

I wanted to post a study from 2015 in the Netherlands, which has a good gender equality index that basically concludes that "Six in ten women as well as men say they do not want to commit to a partner. More women than men say they have been unlucky in relationships, that relationships cause too many problems, and they do not have high expectations in this respect," but this sub doesn't allow us to post links.

IF GENDER EQUALITY IS REAL, and if it affects dating and relationships (and it does), we are living in a reality where this is not what happened for far too many women who are now in our 30s and beyond, )(and I can see many women in their 20s still struggling too to set standards and see them responded to co-operatively). If gender equality was present from the teen years on the way it should be when it comes to sex, emotions, communication, accountability, etc, the motivation for forming unions and the benefits of being in them could be shared by women equally, motivating us to chase.

Relatedly, while I get that chasing someone disinterested is not worth it, it seems at times, sometimes guys place women who are hesitant or expecting a guy to step up into the "disinterested" category, likely because they just have low effort? I don't see how it makes sense to see a disinterested woman the same as a woman with standards.

Have other women come across men who seem to think that if you want them to lead with their interest first, that it's you that isn't interested, or is putting no effort in? If so, do you think this is a big problem? Do you get the impression these guys have a visions of expecting a woman to chase, beg for what we want (when we are already totally disinterested in feeding this dynamic)?

Guys who do chase - why do you do it? What is your reasoning? Can you share some experiences you've had connecting with women who've faced inequality? How has gender inequality (women being treated as less than equal) affected your abilities to connect with women and form relationships, have satisfying sex? How have you overcome this to find sex and relationships if you have?

Guys who dont like to chase - why not? How has gender inequality (women being treated as less than equal) affected your abilities to connect with women and form relationships? How have you overcome this to find sex and relationships if you have?

How have women managed to cope with being treated unequally to find good sex and relationships?

Not every woman is going to want a guy to chase them, and that's fine. This post is about why guys should be open to the idea of it, and prepared to engage with it. I personally do not like it when guys make sexual advances on me, but I do like it when they show interest in getting to know me as a person. I prefer to be the one that signals my 'sexual' interest, but I want them to be the ones who show me 'personal' or 'general' interest if they are interested in potentially dating me beyond being friends. It makes sense for everyone to put effort into friendship in my books, but when it comes to building something deeper, I expect a guy to lead with his interest because of the widespread inequality I've experienced and witnessed/heard about in other women's lives.

DISCUSS? In light of gender inequality and the unequal experiences that USUALLY prevail between men and women, do you think men have some obligation to show women they respect us, and want something with us in a manner that leads?

Submitted February 14, 2020 at 11:36PM

Not everyone has the same experiences in dating, but gender inequality is real. This post is about women's common negative experiences with dating growing up in our western culture in North America. This is not to say negative experiences are the only ones, but this post acknowledges that women face real collective barriers to finding what we want out of relationships that are not rooted purely in our choices or our chances - this post recognizes our choices are made based on what is available to us, or our chances. It's my personal belief that to improve conditions for women, we need to be free to address men as an entire group and state what we need from all of them at once. Our culture often views women who attempt to address men like this as talking down to them, judging them, even hating them, when it's just a woman trying to make standards setting the norm by sharing what we want and expect. Allowing women to clearly and openly define customs and norms as equals when it comes to dating is why its important to let women speak about men as a whole as well as our experiences with dating culture. We need to be free to CONNECT our own personal experiences with a wider culture and other women's experiences in order to change culture to lessen gender inequality in dating.On this note, the 20s are a time of everyone pretending men and women are equal: and by that I mean we are equally respected by others, given equal opportunities to enjoy sex and gather positive self affirming experiences, etc. By the close of the decade, its obvious this isn't true.This is why men should chase (in my opinion).By 30, many women have went through a decade of discouragement in the form of bad sex, feeling misunderstood by people who think its normal to not understand our bodies or emotions, who expect us to beg to be treated right, who then resent us for asking for what we need.How many guys understand this?Their fears of rejection (for good reasons) are not actually a form of discouragement relative to the objectification, dehumanization, chronic disappointment, and expectations that we lower our standards that many women have faced.I believe guys should understand this, but I'm not sure they do. Studies confirm that men perceive and experience more benefits to their happiness in long term relationships than women do - they expect these unions to add to their lives more and they're treated better in them.I wanted to post a study from 2015 in the Netherlands, which has a good gender equality index that basically concludes that "Six in ten women as well as men say they do not want to commit to a partner. More women than men say they have been unlucky in relationships, that relationships cause too many problems, and they do not have high expectations in this respect," but this sub doesn't allow us to post links.IF GENDER EQUALITY IS REAL, and if it affects dating and relationships (and it does), we are living in a reality where this is not what happened for far too many women who are now in our 30s and beyond, )(and I can see many women in their 20s still struggling too to set standards and see them responded to co-operatively). If gender equality was present from the teen years on the way it should be when it comes to sex, emotions, communication, accountability, etc, the motivation for forming unions and the benefits of being in them could be shared by women equally, motivating us to chase.Relatedly, while I get that chasing someone disinterested is not worth it, it seems at times, sometimes guys place women who are hesitant or expecting a guy to step up into the "disinterested" category, likely because they just have low effort? I don't see how it makes sense to see a disinterested woman the same as a woman with standards.Have other women come across men who seem to think that if you want them to lead with their interest first, that it's you that isn't interested, or is putting no effort in? If so, do you think this is a big problem? Do you get the impression these guys have a visions of expecting a woman to chase, beg for what we want (when we are already totally disinterested in feeding this dynamic)?Guys who do chase - why do you do it? What is your reasoning? Can you share some experiences you've had connecting with women who've faced inequality? How has gender inequality (women being treated as less than equal) affected your abilities to connect with women and form relationships, have satisfying sex? How have you overcome this to find sex and relationships if you have?Guys who dont like to chase - why not? How has gender inequality (women being treated as less than equal) affected your abilities to connect with women and form relationships? How have you overcome this to find sex and relationships if you have?How have women managed to cope with being treated unequally to find good sex and relationships?Not every woman is going to want a guy to chase them, and that's fine. This post is about why guys should be open to the idea of it, and prepared to engage with it. I personally do not like it when guys make sexual advances on me, but I do like it when they show interest in getting to know me as a person. I prefer to be the one that signals my 'sexual' interest, but I want them to be the ones who show me 'personal' or 'general' interest if they are interested in potentially dating me beyond being friends. It makes sense for everyone to put effort into friendship in my books, but when it comes to building something deeper, I expect a guy to lead with his interest because of the widespread inequality I've experienced and witnessed/heard about in other women's lives.DISCUSS? In light of gender inequality and the unequal experiences that USUALLY prevail between men and women, do you think men have some obligation to show women they respect us, and want something with us in a manner that leads?