Dating Advice for Men Part 3 (Paying/Splitting the Bill)

The absolutely most contested point I made in part 1 was paying/splitting the bill so I really broke this one down and I hope this helps people, I get the feeling that this is a point a lot of people struggle on. I will link part 1 and part 2 on the bottom. Thanks for reading and I hope this helps!

It has been brought to my attention that there seems to be some confusion about who pays for the date. I will reiterate that I am a millennial so maybe zoomers do things differently but this is what I have learned in my life. The reason people still talk about this issue is that there isn't just one answer that applies to every situation. Here are some points that have worked for me. I really deep-dove this one so thanks for reading!

The thing that I think people get hung-up on is confusing the way the world SHOULD work and the way it actually does. It is great to have an idea of what an ideal future should look like and to even be part of that change but it is more important to understand the way the world actually IS right now. For context I am American and this is for America. Again, there is no one-size-fits-all answer to this question so I hope you find this information helpful.

When you should pay for the date.

1. When the women is expecting you to do so. If you can pickup that she is fully expecting that you will cover the tab then by all means, do so. Splitting the bill at this stage of the game is pretty much date suicide. Which could be fine! Maybe you never intend on seeing this person again and that is ok. If she insists on splitting the bill this could be her way of letting you know that as well.
2. If you asked her out. Especially if it is something she wouldn't be doing on her own. If you ask a girl to a local waterpark and she says yes then you should cover the tickets. If you invite a girl to an event of some kind the natural expectation in most of the country is that you are getting the tickets.
3. If you are a big baller and you have invited her to somewhere that would be out of her budget normally. I get it, some people have money and maybe you asked someone out that has a little less than you. There is nothing wrong with this, maybe you want to do something fun and money isn't really a deciding factor in what you do. This is totally fine, I find it a little odd that people feel like they have to be in the same tax bracket in order to date. As long as you are not using your income discrepancy as some kind of lame power thing then I think this should be ok. Just remember that a few hundred dollars might not be anything to you but you can really shock someone if you expect them to pickup the other half and they thought you were inviting them along as like a plus one sort of deal.
4. Ideally whatever the bill is on the date it should be an insignificant amount of money to both of you. Picking up the tab should be a GESTURE, not a power move or a move to indebt the person to you in any way or to establish some level of control over that person. It should be in-line with opening a door, offering to carry a heavy bag, lighting a cigarette for her, holding an umbrella, pouring the wine at a nice restaurant. Bills should really always be in gesture territory when possible, if the date is so expensive that one of you can't comfortably cover the whole thing then you should be going on dates that align with you income more appropriately.
5. When the bill is exceedingly small. If you go on a coffee date and make her pay for her own coffee then I honestly don't know what you are doing. Even at my work it was kind of a battle to pay for your own coffee with co-workers present. Someone was always trying to pickup the tab for the group. Coffee is not expensive and it looks cool to pay for everyone.

So there are times where maybe you don't pay for the date.

1. When you have agreed in advance on going on something relatively expensive for you. Like a trip or some-kind of super touristy thing that costs a considerable amount of money and you have covered that you are buying your own tickets. This is most common when it is something that you were both probably going to anyway, like a really major concert. Agreeing to go together can make the trip a lot more fun but it shouldn't be obligating one person to suddenly cover someone that was already planning on going. This should absolutely be understood before anything happens, you really don't want to get to the entrance of Disney World and have her look at you expectantly. That is a disaster.
2. When she is really insistent. Sometimes women want to pay their half or even pickup the whole tab and that is totally cool. You should always act as if you are paying and if she half-heartedly tries to protest one time then proceed and pay the bill. This is pretty common courtesy and it pretty common for someone who isn't intending on paying to offer one time to cover themselves. If she protests more then once then you should be allowing her to split or cover the bill, whatever she wants to do. Under no circumstances should you be flat out overriding what she wants because you think you know better. If she is telling you something you should be listening. Why is she doing this? There could be a lot of reasons. She doesn't want to see you again, if she is covering the whole thing is could be that she doesn't want to see you again but its not your fault so she feels bad about putting you out. Maybe its nothing you did, maybe your voice reminds her of her high school bully, it could be literally anything. On the flip side if you are on the west coast this is pretty common, I've had women pick up the whole tab on a first date just because they were smooth operators and it was a cool move. If a woman is super excited to see you again and she picks up the tab that could just mean you are in a good position with this person.
3. You've been dating for awhile. At some point you are going to reach some level of equilibrium with this person and you will probably go back and forth with the bill. Maybe you won't and you'll pay for everything forever but I honestly haven't met women that wanted that.
4. Finally I would say it is more than ok to split the bill when you are both broke as hell and you both know it. I would say you should never let being poor stand in the way of dating and being happy. Some parts of the country people are really struggling and if you guys know you don't have a lot of cash and you are doing something that costs money just pay for yourselves and don't make a big thing of it. Try and shoot for low-cost or even free dates. Walk around the park or go to a free concert, there is a lot out there if you get creative. At the end of all of this it is the thought that counts.

With all that being said I really want to convey that as a guy paying the tab is the norm. Maybe there are a lot of cool as people who are really progressive that think splitting the bill is the ultimate step in gender equality and that is totally cool. There is a good chance that someone out there is going to get really offended that you offered to pay for them. Understand these are fringe occurrences, its like assuming everyone you meet is a vegetarian, sometimes you will be right but most of the time you won't be. Its weird to think about but even if you do meet someone who is progressive and she doesn't ever want a man to pay for her then by not offering she will still be offended. Because she knows you had no way of knowing that she felt that way and she will decide on her own why you didn't offer.

Unless you are deliberately overrides her clearly expressed wishes (which is a major no-no in any situation) then it is hard to mess up by picking up the tab.

On a final note I don't really understand where this splitting the bill thing came from. Did your dad tell you to make sure to split the bill? Did your mom say that? Your cool uncle? Where is this advice coming from? What mentor figure is telling people to split the bill at the end of the date with that cute girl you've been talking about? Every generation likes to think they are the most progressive generation to ever live. They probably had this conversation in ancient Greece. I'm not an idiot, I understand that perfect gender equality means splitting the tab but understand that we aren't there yet and we won't be in our lifetimes so deliberately offending/surprising people and handicapping yourself to make some kind of point is not how things are done. I hope I am not offending anyone, I just feel like people get a little wrapped up with what the world should be and they end up kind of ignoring how it is. Thanks for reading and good luck out there!

If you want to reading my first two posts I have linked them below.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/opwol5/honest_dating_advice_for_men_my_first_post_ever/

https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/or3m42/honest_dating_advice_for_men_part_2_my_second/

Submitted July 25, 2021 at 11:15PM

The absolutely most contested point I made in part 1 was paying/splitting the bill so I really broke this one down and I hope this helps people, I get the feeling that this is a point a lot of people struggle on. I will link part 1 and part 2 on the bottom. Thanks for reading and I hope this helps!It has been brought to my attention that there seems to be some confusion about who pays for the date. I will reiterate that I am a millennial so maybe zoomers do things differently but this is what I have learned in my life. The reason people still talk about this issue is that there isn't just one answer that applies to every situation. Here are some points that have worked for me. I really deep-dove this one so thanks for reading!The thing that I think people get hung-up on is confusing the way the world SHOULD work and the way it actually does. It is great to have an idea of what an ideal future should look like and to even be part of that change but it is more important to understand the way the world actually IS right now. For context I am American and this is for America. Again, there is no one-size-fits-all answer to this question so I hope you find this information helpful.When you should pay for the date.When the women is expecting you to do so. If you can pickup that she is fully expecting that you will cover the tab then by all means, do so. Splitting the bill at this stage of the game is pretty much date suicide. Which could be fine! Maybe you never intend on seeing this person again and that is ok. If she insists on splitting the bill this could be her way of letting you know that as well.If you asked her out. Especially if it is something she wouldn't be doing on her own. If you ask a girl to a local waterpark and she says yes then you should cover the tickets. If you invite a girl to an event of some kind the natural expectation in most of the country is that you are getting the tickets.If you are a big baller and you have invited her to somewhere that would be out of her budget normally. I get it, some people have money and maybe you asked someone out that has a little less than you. There is nothing wrong with this, maybe you want to do something fun and money isn't really a deciding factor in what you do. This is totally fine, I find it a little odd that people feel like they have to be in the same tax bracket in order to date. As long as you are not using your income discrepancy as some kind of lame power thing then I think this should be ok. Just remember that a few hundred dollars might not be anything to you but you can really shock someone if you expect them to pickup the other half and they thought you were inviting them along as like a plus one sort of deal.Ideally whatever the bill is on the date it should be an insignificant amount of money to both of you. Picking up the tab should be a GESTURE, not a power move or a move to indebt the person to you in any way or to establish some level of control over that person. It should be in-line with opening a door, offering to carry a heavy bag, lighting a cigarette for her, holding an umbrella, pouring the wine at a nice restaurant. Bills should really always be in gesture territory when possible, if the date is so expensive that one of you can't comfortably cover the whole thing then you should be going on dates that align with you income more appropriately.When the bill is exceedingly small. If you go on a coffee date and make her pay for her own coffee then I honestly don't know what you are doing. Even at my work it was kind of a battle to pay for your own coffee with co-workers present. Someone was always trying to pickup the tab for the group. Coffee is not expensive and it looks cool to pay for everyone.So there are times where maybe you don't pay for the date.When you have agreed in advance on going on something relatively expensive for you. Like a trip or some-kind of super touristy thing that costs a considerable amount of money and you have covered that you are buying your own tickets. This is most common when it is something that you were both probably going to anyway, like a really major concert. Agreeing to go together can make the trip a lot more fun but it shouldn't be obligating one person to suddenly cover someone that was already planning on going. This should absolutely be understood before anything happens, you really don't want to get to the entrance of Disney World and have her look at you expectantly. That is a disaster.When she is really insistent. Sometimes women want to pay their half or even pickup the whole tab and that is totally cool. You should always act as if you are paying and if she half-heartedly tries to protest one time then proceed and pay the bill. This is pretty common courtesy and it pretty common for someone who isn't intending on paying to offer one time to cover themselves. If she protests more then once then you should be allowing her to split or cover the bill, whatever she wants to do. Under no circumstances should you be flat out overriding what she wants because you think you know better. If she is telling you something you should be listening. Why is she doing this? There could be a lot of reasons. She doesn't want to see you again, if she is covering the whole thing is could be that she doesn't want to see you again but its not your fault so she feels bad about putting you out. Maybe its nothing you did, maybe your voice reminds her of her high school bully, it could be literally anything. On the flip side if you are on the west coast this is pretty common, I've had women pick up the whole tab on a first date just because they were smooth operators and it was a cool move. If a woman is super excited to see you again and she picks up the tab that could just mean you are in a good position with this person.You've been dating for awhile. At some point you are going to reach some level of equilibrium with this person and you will probably go back and forth with the bill. Maybe you won't and you'll pay for everything forever but I honestly haven't met women that wanted that.Finally I would say it is more than ok to split the bill when you are both broke as hell and you both know it. I would say you should never let being poor stand in the way of dating and being happy. Some parts of the country people are really struggling and if you guys know you don't have a lot of cash and you are doing something that costs money just pay for yourselves and don't make a big thing of it. Try and shoot for low-cost or even free dates. Walk around the park or go to a free concert, there is a lot out there if you get creative. At the end of all of this it is the thought that counts.With all that being said I really want to convey that as a guy paying the tab is the norm. Maybe there are a lot of cool as people who are really progressive that think splitting the bill is the ultimate step in gender equality and that is totally cool. There is a good chance that someone out there is going to get really offended that you offered to pay for them. Understand these are fringe occurrences, its like assuming everyone you meet is a vegetarian, sometimes you will be right but most of the time you won't be. Its weird to think about but even if you do meet someone who is progressive and she doesn't ever want a man to pay for her then by not offering she will still be offended. Because she knows you had no way of knowing that she felt that way and she will decide on her own why you didn't offer.Unless you are deliberately overrides her clearly expressed wishes (which is a major no-no in any situation) then it is hard to mess up by picking up the tab.On a final note I don't really understand where this splitting the bill thing came from. Did your dad tell you to make sure to split the bill? Did your mom say that? Your cool uncle? Where is this advice coming from? What mentor figure is telling people to split the bill at the end of the date with that cute girl you've been talking about? Every generation likes to think they are the most progressive generation to ever live. They probably had this conversation in ancient Greece. I'm not an idiot, I understand that perfect gender equality means splitting the tab but understand that we aren't there yet and we won't be in our lifetimes so deliberately offending/surprising people and handicapping yourself to make some kind of point is not how things are done. I hope I am not offending anyone, I just feel like people get a little wrapped up with what the world should be and they end up kind of ignoring how it is. Thanks for reading and good luck out there!If you want to reading my first two posts I have linked them below.https://ift.tt/3rzNLfR